Thailand - Girls Page 4
Thai girls have feelings too
This is, in fact, a huge understatement. If you have been reading the wrong web sites, or talking to the wrong people, you might be under the impression that all Thai girls are scheming, cheating, conniving, heartless gold-diggers who have no feelings. Again, it's a case of foreign men who only ever have experiences with Thai prostitutes and tar all Thai girls with the same brush.
Forget bar girls and other sex workers. The average Thai girl is extremely sensitive with intense feelings and emotions. On one hand the Thais are a pragmatic race but on the other they are quite naive, not displaying the cynicism that so many Westerners have.
The girls still have romantic notions of love even though their pragmatism tells them that what they dream about probably won't happen in reality. We tend to get cynical through experience and a series of failed relationships is enough to make most people cynical about romance.
The problem for normal Thai girls is that they don't get this experience because of the extreme conservatism that exists in Thai culture. They won't have had a string of boyfriends by their mid-20's, like most Western girls, and consequently they don't become as cynical. I know a number of girls approaching 30 who are lovely girls but who have never had a proper relationship. Most respectable Thai girls will still be virgins when they marry.
They are very wary of men and this is basically because of the way many Thai men carry on. It doesn't often come up in conversation but I was quite shocked one time when marking a paper that one of my better students had written.
The writing topic was about whether men or women make better parents. Her views were extreme, to say the least, and it was very clear that her general opinion of males was not good.
The problems come when the girls finally allow themselves to fall for a man. Up until that point they have been very naive and reserved but at least they don't get hurt. When they fall in love they fall in a big way and if things don't work out the situation can get quite unpleasant.
As a respectable farang man in Thailand it is quite possible that a good Thai girl will fall in love with you. As I stated, the girls often have bad opinions of Thai men but view farang men as being different.
They're not, of course, but the girls think they are. This is basically because they don't have any experience of foreign men with which to form personal opinions and the impression they get from magazines and Hollywood is very favourable, even if it is completely false. Men are the same everywhere. Some are good and some are bad, no matter where they come from.
It doesn't take a lot to make a Thai girl fall for you. It's one of those ironies in life that the more you try with girls, the less interested they are and vice-versa. This applies in Thailand just as much as it does elsewhere.
For foreign men it is easy to enter into a relationship with a Thai girl. If she's a bar girl, no problem. She's only doing it for the money and is unlikely to have any feelings for you so won't be upset when you feel like a change.
Be careful with the riep roi girls though. Getting into relationships with good girls should not be taken lightly. If you decide later that you want to get out, expect lots of fireworks and emotional pain. Take your time in Thailand and don't get involved too quickly - as tempting as it may seem. There are thousands of decent Thai girls out there for decent foreign men but to avoid problems later wait until you are fairly convinced you have found one who is right for you.
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Crafty Eddie, the Danish love rat
A Thai girl I was friendly with was in a very bad way and desperately needed a shoulder to cry on. She decided to pour out her heart to me in the shop where she worked and broke down in tears. Later, I found out that she had been crying almost constantly for a couple of weeks.
The story was that she had gone to Phuket a couple of years ago to help in her brother's small restaurant. While there she had been spotted by Crafty Eddie from Denmark. For a long time after that, Crafty Eddie had done a very good impression of being Nice Guy Eddie but unfortunately that didn't turn out to be the case.
He was obviously aware of the Patong bar girls but his strategy to get sex in Thailand was a little different. As I have mentioned before, there are many thoroughly decent girls from good families in Thailand but sex with them is difficult outside of marriage. Bel, the girl in the shop, is one such example of a good Thai girl.
Crafty Eddie knew all this (it seems that he makes several fairly lengthy trips to Thailand each year so he knows the score) but he just used that knowledge to con good Thai girls so that he could have his way with them.
After meeting Bel for the first time he returned to Thailand several times subsequently and told her that he loved her very much. He told her he wanted to marry her and that she should tell her family and friends about the forthcoming marriage. He told her all the things Thai girls want to hear and she was a very happy girl.
He made a big point about wanting to meet her parents so he could prove to them what a nice guy he was and that he could take care of their daughter. He even told her he had been researching photo studios for the wedding photos. It was a convincing act and Bel fell for his Viking charms.
She was completely taken in with all this and I think that a major factor was her total lack of experience with men - especially farang men. Although she is 31 she had never had a boyfriend before Eddie and I would bet my house that before she met him she was a virgin. There are armies of conservative, virgin girls in their late 20's and early 30's just like Bel in Thailand.
What was a little strange about Crafty Eddie's trips to Thailand was that although he supposedly 'loved' Bel so much and wanted to marry her - so he claimed - he would only meet her briefly before going off travelling around the country (normally Isaan) for long periods on his own.
On one visit, he met Bel for a couple of days and then left the girl he supposedly wanted to marry in order to rent a house at the other end of the country in Nong Khai.
She went to see him and while there went straight into good Thai wife mode, doing all the domestic chores and waiting on Eddie hand and foot. He also got to have his way with her so his goal was accomplished.
At the end of the month he told her he was now bored with her and that she should get another boyfriend. Sure. At 31, he was the first man she had ever been with and now he just expects her to go back home and find another one. She was distraught and inconsolable.
His birthday was coming up but he told her he wanted her to leave before then so that he could spend it alone. I don't think so Eddie. I don't think you had any plans to spend your birthday alone but you didn't want Bel around because she would cramp your style.
While in Nong Khai she spoke to the owner of the house Eddie was renting and found out that he had been entertaining other girls there. That didn't surprise me in the least.
She tried calling him but he had decided to stop answering her calls. Eddie, if you ever chance upon this, you temporarily wrecked that girl's life. You broke her heart.
I rather suspect that Eddie met several good girls in Thailand and told them the same lies as he told Bel in order to have sex with them before moving on. Bel told me that when they were together he took good care of her and he was a nice guy - and I believe that - but Eddie's problem is just that he is a cheat.
Good Thai girls are wary of men but they are also vulnerable.
There are plenty of prostitutes in Thailand if you just want a sex holiday, and there are lots of decent girls if you want to find a good wife, but to con the good girls into sex by proclaiming your love and promising marriage is about as low as it gets.
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Western Union Love
This article on the Internet made me laugh. Don't regard it purely as humour though. It is very well written and I don't doubt for a minute that any of it was made up. I'm cynical but neither I, nor the author of the article, are as cynical as some of the bar girls operating around Patong Beach.
Western Union Love by Harry Nicolaides
After writing this article, Harry Nicolaides wrote a book about Thailand that sold seven copies. In the book he wrote some things that are taboo in Thailand.
In a highly publicised case he was arrested and shown on TV in leg irons. After spending some time in prison he was granted a royal pardon and deported.
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Last updated: 11th June 2008
I was interested to see Thai girls advertising themselves on Craigslist in the search for a foreign husband. Writing in broken English on a site that hardly gets any Thai visitors - and specifying very clearly that foreign men only are required - they have no need to add 'Thai men need not apply' but that is clearly the case.
All they want, they say, is a good, honest man. Nothing is said about money, and age is apparently no problem. Even very young girls, around 20, say that men up to 50 are acceptable. In fact, many have a preference for older men in the belief they are more likely to be faithful and trustworthy.
Most girls include a photo of themselves in the ads and some are very pretty. They normally adopt the classic Thai girl pose: looking innocent, sweet and demure, with a soft toy next to them in the photo.
This must seem like the answer to the prayers of every sad and lonely male over 45 in the Western hemisphere. And what's better is that men don't even have to leave the comfort of their houses to begin a 'relationship' with the Thai girl of their dreams. They can send an e-mail straight away (and I even think it's free to reply to advertisers on Craigslist).
The prettier girls advertising themselves this way must have some of the busiest Hotmail accounts in the world. For what it's worth, I would just like to add a few comments about getting in touch with Thai girls this way, and what you might expect.
For a start, I can see from reading through their details that the vast majority are all from a similar background. They are from poor families with little education, do menial jobs, and their lack of money is a constant problem in life. Some are single mothers and most have probably had bad relationships with Thai men. They're not necessarily bad girls but they have problems in life, which are mostly financial.
My next point is that there are hundreds of thousands of 'Craigslist girls' in Thailand, exactly the same as the ones who advertise, except they don't advertise on Craigslist. I meet them every day. Quite a few flirt with me and some have made it very clear that if I want them, they are mine for the asking. Many are young and pretty.
I actually think the whole process is a waste of time, not only because you will have so much competition but because e-mail can't take 'chemistry' into account. With some people we just click, but with others we don't. In order to find out though, we need to actually meet the other person.
On a trip to Thailand, you will get an opportunity to meet hundreds of similar girls and you will be the only foreigner they know. The laundry girls, shop girls and maids won't have hundreds of other foreigners writing to them.
The next question is what you might expect if you enter into a relationship with such a girl. What's in it for you and what will be expected of you?
It seems to me that most lonely, middle-aged aged farang men just want sex and companionship and sure, these two things will be supplied. The sex may not be that exciting after a year but it's better than nothing and the companionship aspect may be kind of strange.
I see so many mixed couples in Thailand where clearly there is no spoken communication. She can probably speak a little English but can't be bothered speaking to her farang husband, while he can't speak a single word of Thai and can't be bothered to learn. What a great basis for a relationship.
Her life revolves around her family and Thai friends while he is a constant feature in the background, always ready with his wallet when something needs to be paid for. It's companionship in the sense that he is with other people but a very isolated kind of companionship.
A Thai girl's loyalty will be first and foremost to her family. Husbands - especially foreign husbands - will be a long way down the list of people she is loyal to. A foreign husband will also be expected to support her family in the same way he supports her. This is something that has surprised some men I have met who have Thai wives. Once they get used to the idea, it can then start to irritate them.
The bottom line is that it really depends on what you want. Girls like this are not at all worldly and have little concept of life outside their very small environment. They speak little or no English. Therefore, if you want a partner you want to be able to discuss world events with, and who stimulates you mentally, you need to look elsewhere.
If it's just a case of wanting someone to be with, and to have sex with, in return for financially supporting her and her extended family, but having nothing else that you share in common, then it may work out.
What it isn't, is the answer to every man's prayers. The sweet, innocent, demure girls that you see in the photos who only want a good, honest husband come with lots of strings attached. Provided you understand this, and provided you are happy with the arrangement, good for you. But it's not every Western man's cup of tea.
Better-educated Thai girls are a different prospect altogether and, in my opinion, extremely desirable but these are the girls good Thai men want and it is very difficult for foreigners to compete with wealthy, educated Thai men. Not only that, but higher class Thai girls will be very aware of the negative perceptions in Thai society associated with getting involved with a foreign man. This is something that girls at the bottom of the Thai social hierarchy don't really care about provided the foreign man can provide her with financial support.
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Thai girls and money
Last updated: 30th March 2013
It doesn't take a genius to figure out why so many poor Thai girls are attracted to foreign men, no matter how old, how ugly or socially inept the foreign men may be. Obviously, it is money. They have none and they have no opportunities in life to make a decent salary.
I don't have a problem with this, but I never forget it either. I do have a problem when foreign men aged around 70 write to tell me about the problems with their 19 year-old Thai girlfriends and talk about love, trust and honesty. Come on guys, don't delude yourselves. Look at her and then look in the mirror.
None of us enter into a relationship or marriage because we think we will be worse off. We do it because we think we will be better off. An old foreign man will be happier with a young, attractive wife and a poor Thai girl will be happier living a life that isn't dictated by poverty.
This sounds a bit cynical, but it's pragmatic. Other feelings can develop and mutually beneficial relationships such as this can work quite well. We might want to marry someone we feel 'in love' with, but this initial infatuation will only last a couple of years at most and there have to be other reasons.
The problem in Thailand is distinguishing the honest girls who will accept this type of relationship from the devious ones whose only intention it is to scam as much money from a foreigner as possible.
As an older man you aren't going to marry a young Thai girl because of the intense love you feel between each other. She wants something and so do you. This is the reality.
At the same time, you don't want to end up a little later with a broken heart and a broken bank account. Never hurry into relationships with Thai girls, keep away from the tourist resorts, and keep away from bargirls and massage girls.
Be aware also that even if you think you are doing the right things to meet girls, you may still have problems. I've heard of 'respectable' girls working for respectable private companies that persuade foreign men to part with lots of money before ending the relationship.
Thailand has to be one of the riskiest countries in the whole world in which to meet a girl. Never forget it.
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Thai girls and money management
Last updated: 30th March 2013
In almost all cases, the only reason for a Thai girl to enter into a relationship with a foreigner is money. Never forget this.
Thai girls from wealthy families aren't interested in foreigners because money isn't an issue. There may be some exceptions, but the vast majority of farangs involved with Thai women are involved with Thai women from poor backgrounds.
Thailand is an extremely inequitable country with a huge wealth gap. The rich minority have it all and the rest have nothing. The rich also want to keep it that way and poor Thais have no opportunities in life to better themselves.
Well, for Thai girls there is one way - meeting a farang. Lots of girls will make it their sole aim in life to meet a foreigner who she believes will support her and her extended family.
Unfortunately, the perception that many Thais have of foreigners is that they are all fabulously rich and that money is never a problem. Foreigners taking vacations in Thailand who have no idea about Thailand perpetuate this myth by the way they throw money around.
When a poor Thai girl eventually snares a foreigner, it is the equivalent of her buying the winning lottery ticket. He may not actually be that wealthy, but because he is a farang she will believe that he has a bottomless pit of money.
I realised this on my first trip to Thailand in 1987 when all requests for money from Thai girls were expected to be met. If a request for money was declined they got quite upset and used the English term 'Cheap Charlie' to describe men who wouldn't give in to their every request. The Thai term for stingy is 'kee niaow', which you may hear being bandied about.
Thais, especially poor Thais, generally have no clue about life outside of Thailand. They have never been abroad and they have some very strange ideas about how foreigners live. This false perception is quite a big problem. However much you try to explain that you don't have an unlimited supply of money, they don't really believe you.
To give some background, many Thai girls live lives of drudgery and earn well under Bt10,000 a month. They manage perfectly well and would never dream of complaining to their employer or Thai partner that they don't have enough. That all changes once they have a farang boyfriend or husband.
One way to support them financially is just to pay for things as you go along. The girls treat this as a game, with the objective being to get the most out of you as they possibly can. The requests never stop and if you refuse they get angry or sulk, sometimes for days.
You can try to limit what you give them by giving them a monthly allowance, which should be plenty for all their needs and wants. I've tried both ways, but there are always problems no matter how you try to manage it.
The money that you give them is never enough, despite the fact that it is far more than they were earning before and they no longer have to pay for things that they paid for before.
With the extra money in their pockets they will go on shopping trips and there is no limit to what they can spend shopping. Money will also be used to treat family members, especially their mothers, in order to repay the buun kuun kindness for their mothers' milk bringing them into the world.
They may not complain to Thai employers or partners about not having enough money, but they complain bitterly to their farang partners, who they expect just to cough up more. This is the false perception problem and believing that foreigners have an infinite supply of money.
If you give them money intended for groceries or household bills, they will try to keep as much of this money for themselves. Even though you have given them money already, they are still good at getting you to pay for things and if the money is meant for food expect the cupboards to look a little bare.
Thai landlords do a similar thing. Their objective when you hand over money for a deposit on a rented house or apartment is to see how much of that money they can keep for themselves. It's the Thai way.
When the girls complain about not having enough money, you can give in and give them more, or you can try to stand firm and explain to them that they have enough already. However, here's a warning if you try to take a stand.
Credit is very easy to get in Thailand and finance companies make big profits. If you are making a big purchase, they will want you to pay in instalments and not with cash. I read about one farang in Thailand who wanted to buy a car for cash, but was refused because what they really wanted was the profit that they would make on a loan for the car.
I had a bit of a disagreement with my wife about money, so her solution was simply to borrow Bt10,000 from a finance company. The interest was about Bt3,000, therefore this was a very expensive way to get money. And who paid the money back? She, like most Thais girls, has no money and so her stupidity and stubbornness cost me more money.
Having a Thai wife or girlfriend is sometimes like having a loose cannon that no one can control. They won't respond to logic or reason, and maybe this is the reason why many Thai men use physical violence in domestic situations?
I get on fairly well with my wife, but the biggest problem is always money. With Thai girls it always is. Before I met her she had a motorbike, a crappy low-paid job, and lived in a room in her sister's crappy house.
She now lives in the type of house that only Thai doctors and business owners live in, she has a car, she doesn't work, and her monthly allowance is far more than her old salary.
Is this enough? Of course not, she is Thai and she won the lottery when she married a farang. Whatever she has, she wants more.
I have always lived my life by the adage, "You can have anything, but you can't have everything." It's a good saying to remember, but Thai girls believe that they can have everything. A reader wrote to me with another saying: "Thai girls don't want anything, they just want more."
The girls are very clever and understand the reputation that Thai girls have with foreign men. Before they have any power in the relationship they won't be pushy and won't ask for much. They will even tell the men that they don't want a lot. However, once they are in a position of power, everything changes.
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Don't be a mug
Last updated: 28th April 2009
Sitting in a restaurant in Bangkok one evening, a farang walked in with a bar girl and sat on the next table. I knew he was a Brit before he opened his mouth. He had a British complexion and ginger'ish hair with bad glasses and one of those silk shirts that are only worn by old men.
He was in his early 50's and I guess he had never been married, probably had never had a girlfriend, and probably had very little (if any) sexual experience. The guy had the charisma of a pot plant. He looked as if he had been in the same job for years and probably couldn't do anything at work without a long, boring explanation first as to what he was doing. 'Boring Twat,' was the expression that came to mind.
His 'paid-for' companion for the evening looked like quite a hardened bar girl. She had the typical long hair, tight jeans, high heels and arrogant swagger of a Bangkok sex worker and I guess she was about half his age. As they came in I saw and heard the huge alarm bell that was ringing above his head but he was completely oblivious to it.
Their body language said everything. He leaned forward on his elbows as far as he could and gazed at her constantly. Her body language was very closed - crossed legs under the table, folded arms (apart from when she ran her fingers through her hair) and lots of glances out of the window.
This sad loser couldn't believe the girl he was with but she just wanted him to pay her so she could leave and go somewhere else to have some fun. It was so obvious yet so sad at the same time.
She didn't say a word, just nodding and agreeing with him. In an effort to keep the conversation going he was coming out with all sorts of crap but he had nothing interesting to say.
Then came his big line. "Listen to me," he told her. (I think he had to tell people this because normally they just ignored him.) He then proceeded with his 'rescue plan' to get her out of the bar. Oh my god, is this for real? The naive idiot. Yeah sure, take her away from a life she is very happy with so she can live out her days with this boring idiot in a semi-detached house in Salford or somewhere.
The really sad thing was that he wasn't in Thailand just for sex. Had that been the case he would either have been in the bar or in his hotel room with her. He had bar fined this girl early and taken her out for a meal because he was lonely and wanted someone in his life.
The ironic thing is that there are thousands of girls in the country who are so desperate for money that they would even be prepared to marry a loser like this. However, they are not to be found in the bars of Sukhumvit - and especially not the girl he was with.
She had him exactly where she wanted and would milk him dry before his flight back to Manchester. He would probably be stupid enough to send her more money when he got home. He will come back to Thailand, I guarantee it. She will have gone though and he will just make the same mistake with another sexy looking bar girl.
In some ways I wanted to help him even though he was a pathetic individual. I left the restaurant before they did and as I walked past him I almost felt like saying, "Can I have a quick word, mate." What I have found though is that foreign men don't listen to other men about Thai girls so it is a waste of time trying to give advice. They always think they know better.
Don't be a mug.
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Can you trust a Thai girl?
Last updated: 31st July 2010
Can you trust a Thai girl? Of course you can. It is ridiculous to make blanket statements about every single girl in the country. I could trust a few Thai girls I know with my life if I had to, but others I wouldn't trust any further than I can spit.
There are lots of Thai girls that can't be trusted but what is rather perverse is that many farang men who go to Thailand looking for girls make a beeline straight for them. It sounds crazy but it is a fact. They head straight to the nearest bar where problem bargirls are guaranteed to be found.
I was speaking to a very educated Thai man who teaches law at the university where I used to work. He lived and studied in France for 14 years and speaks fluent French, as well as almost perfect English. He was telling me how he felt sorry for a farang man he knew who had been taken by a Thai girl.
It was a story I'd heard several times before. A foreign guy goes to Thailand and gets involved with a low class girl who he met in a bar. He gives her a lot of money to buy a house which is then bought in her name. Once the deal has been done she gets her Thai boyfriend (or husband) in, and the farang gets booted out, thus losing all his money.
If there is any kind of a dispute in Thailand between a Thai and a foreigner, there will only ever be one winner. And besides, in a case where the girl can easily prove her ownership of the house and doesn't want the farang around it is an open and shut case. If he makes a nuisance of himself he will find himself on the wrong side of the law, or being visited by some very unpleasant people.
When I was told this story my reaction was different to that of the Thai man. To me, it was just another stupid farang story and he got what he deserved for being an idiot. I expect he hardly knew the girl so why do a stupid thing like that?
In extreme circumstances, foreigners can lose a lot more than merely their money. Dale Henry, a 48 year-old Canadian oil worker, worked two months on the rigs and then spent his month off in Thailand. He thought he had found true love with a 27 year-old Thai woman he met who was working in a Koh Samui bar (which is where so many foreigners unwisely look for love in Thailand).
He gave her everything and they "lived like royalty on his US$10,000 a month salary". His biggest mistake though was letting her know about a Bt32 million Baht life insurance policy he had taken out.
She conspired with her Thai lover and together they hatched a plan to have him murdered. She got her husband drunk and after he had fallen asleep contacted her lover who, along with a hired gunman, entered the house through a door she had left unlocked. Dale Henry was shot dead at close range; murdered in his own house as a result of greed. Here's a link to the full story: Thai wife arrested after Canadian shot dead.
A little later in 2008, Ian Beeston, a 69 year-old Briton was also murdered by his Thai wife and her Thai lover.
These are not isolated incidents. Raymond John Hyde and Jules Odekerken also suffered the same fate.
A lot of it comes down to stupidity, naiveness and insecurity. Throwing around large sums of money in Thailand won't secure you a girl, especially if she is untrustworthy. She will just see your naiveness as an easy way to get rich. There is no need for it.
You can rent a place if you need somewhere to live. Renting is cheap and house prices are fairly static so there aren't major investment benefits with buying property. If you really want to buy a property, buy a condo or talk to a good lawyer and set up a company or something so that you can buy it in your own name.
An expat who wrote told me of the method he used to purchase a property with his Thai wife. For a while he transferred money into her bank account on a regular basis every month. After a while she built up enough of a credit limit so that she was able to take out a mortgage.
The mortgage is in her name and she is responsible for the repayments but he gives her the money each month. It is in her interest for him to be around because she needs him to give her money to pay the mortgage. Remember that with greedy Thais it is better to be worth more alive than dead.
There is just no need to hand over large amounts of cash to Thai girls in order to purchase land and/or property. Farangs who do this - especially when they don't know the girl very well - are the ones most likely to get their fingers burnt.
You most certainly can trust Thai girls but certain simple procedures ensure that you are more likely to meet one you can trust. For starters, don't go looking to meet girls in bars in Sukhumvit/Pattaya/Patong/Samui or anywhere else that has a population of bar girls. Take your time and get to know the girl.
Why not try to meet girls from other professions? Teachers and nurses, for example, tend to be far more honest and hardworking than the average bargirl. Picking up a Thai bargirl is as easy as picking up some groceries from Tesco Lotus (actually it's easier), but you often find that nothing worthwhile having in life comes easily.
The other thing that never ceases to amaze me is how old foreign men continue to delude themselves, despite all the history and evidence. They want something so desperately that they simply refuse to accept the truth or listen to any advice. If you are in your 60's and meet a teenage Thai bargirl, please don't tell me this relationship is about love. Doing so is simply evidence of your stupidity.
Take her out and have fun. Buy things for fun. Let her boost your ego. Let people look at you with a girl who is young enough to be your granddaughter. Have sex with her. But please, please, please don't try to convince yourself or others that she cares anything for you, apart from what comes out of your wallet.
Look at her, and now take a look at yourself in the mirror. Why do you really think she is tolerating your presence? Wake up and smell the coffee. By deluding yourself and failing to accept the obvious you are only asking for trouble.
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