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Photo: Unlike girls working in bars and massage parlours, getting to know truly desirable Thai girls takes a great deal of patience and effort What's On This Page? |
Thailand - Girls Page 5The Changing Face of the Thai Scamstress Last updated: 15th March 2007 Not so very long ago, there was a fairly typical profile associated with the kind of Thai girls that foreign men run into problems with. Typically, the girls would be uneducated and from the north or northeast of the country who were working in bars (prostitutes) or massage establishments. Their motive for doing that type of work would be to support their families back home and they would meet foreign men who were having a vacation in Thailand at their places of employment. Even though men still run into problems with bar girls and the like, I believe this stereotype is becoming rarer. Not only are foreign men becoming more aware of the hazards of associating with bar girls, but Thai women are getting more sophisticated and this is coming at a time when Thai society is becoming more greedy. The Internet has changed the way we do everything. Fifteen years ago you couldn't just switch on your computer and find stuff like this; nor could you get in touch with girls living half way round the globe but now you can. I have no personal experience with meeting Thai girls on-line but I am reliably informed that there are tens of thousands registered on Internet dating sites. Getting in touch with Thai women has never been easier and it is no longer necessary to travel to Thailand. The advantage for farang men is that they can write to lots of girls and go through a kind of vetting process before they even travel. Having selected their choice, they can then develop a rapport with the girl (or girls) of their choice. It all seems perfect but as is often the case; if something seems too good to be true it probably isn't. Perceived wisdom tells us that middle-class girls from good family backgrounds who are university educated and have reasonable jobs should be a good bet and are unlikely to cause any problems; unlike poor rice farmer's daughters from Chiang Rai or Isaan who will constantly be on your ear for money. However, this doesn't necessarily figure. What I thought at first was a one-off, and then maybe a coincidence, has started to become something of a trend. A number of foreign men now seem to be running into problems with Thai girls they met on-line who - on paper - shouldn't be troublesome. They are getting scammed and ripped off by supposedly good girls. So, what's going on? Materialism has arrived in Thailand in a big way, especially in Bangkok, and - just like Madonna - a lot of middle-class, educated Thai girls want to be material girls. They are not from poor backgrounds but the lifestyle that is presented to them whenever they wander around Siam Paragon and other fancy malls is not one they can afford. To get the money they need for the lifestyle they want they look where many Thai girls have looked previously - they look towards foreign men with infinitely deep pockets (so they believe). Their reasons for wanting money may have changed but the bottom line is that it is still only money they are after. In many ways, these girls are a lot more dangerous because they are smarter and more deceptive. It doesn't always figure that a poor, uneducated girl will be less trustworthy than an educated one from a moderately wealthy background. The greediest people in Thailand are often the wealthiest and the people I have met that haven't had a greedy bone in their body have been some of the poorest I have met. Personally, I don't think it is that difficult to figure out what is important to an individual. The way they dress; the possessions they own and lust after; what they spend their money on and what in life they believe is worth having or doing. How important is merit-making (tum-boon) at the local temple to them? Good Thais (the majority) would much rather make merit than buy consumer goods. Some of the nicest Thai people I know have little and want even less. What do they admire in other people? Do they talk about a person having a good character (ni-sai dee) or can they only relate to material possessions? Again, you will find that good Thais always look inward and not at external appearances. Someone's character is far more important to them than how rich they are or what they own. Once you get to know how Thais think there are some very telling signs. Why do you think it is that so many foreign men have problems with Thai girls but very seldom do Thai men have the same problems? It really doesn't take long to identify an obsession with money and that would be my cue to walk away regardless of all other factors. Don't draw up a mental list of attributes in a person that you deem good or bad because it doesn't always work like that. Take everything at face value and trust your instincts. You will find that your gut feeling is very rarely wrong.
Last updated: 1st June 2007 According to Internet folklore, the sweet young lady you met sitting on a bar stool in Pattaya will one day inform you of her family's sick buffalo back in Isaan which needs urgent veterinary attention in order to prevent financial ruin for the family who are of honest Thai rice farming stock and can't survive without their trusty beast. A few thousand Baht is all it will take to save the poor creature and the family will be able to continue putting som-tum, sticky rice and grilled chicken on the dinner table. Unfortunately, the scams masterminded by Thai girls to con cash out of gullible farangs these days aren't quite that easy to spot. Having hacked together this web site, I receive some interesting correspondence from foreign men involved with Thai girls. I have also experienced a number of relationships first-hand with Thai girls. Over a period of time, a few common traits have started to emerge that I will share here. There is no standard scenario - each will have their own variations - but certainly there are tell-tale signs to look out for. One of the biggest problems though is that men become emotionally attached to the girls (for want of a better expression, they fall in love) that they either can't see, can't believe, or don't want to see or believe what is going on. Even if deep down they realise what is happening - and even if everyone around them can see what is happening - they remain powerless to extricate themselves from the situation. This is very sad. It's the ultimate 'moth to the flame' situation where the flame proves to be an irresistible draw even though it will prove fatal in the end. The 'con' in con-artist is short for confidence (confidence-trickster). The best con-artists gain their victims' confidence first, thereby persuading the victim to actually hand over money voluntarily without any need to steal or take it forcibly. This takes time and Thai girls understand this very, very well. The first point to make is that a girl who intends scamming a foreigner will behave herself for a very long time. She knows that in order to do what she wants to do, she has to draw the man completely into her lair. If she tries anything too soon - before the man has really fallen for her - there is a good chance he will just tell her to sling her hook and she will have wasted her time. She will therefore wait patiently for the right moment and during that time she will be everything a man could want. A common theme with the correspondence I receive is that everything was perfect until a big problem suddenly appeared out of nowhere. Remember that in life if something seems to good to be true, it usually is. So, when will the problems begin? With several men I have corresponded with, the problems start to come just before the man is about to make a serious commitment. That commitment is normally giving up his life wherever he comes from and moving to Thailand. Not necessarily. It might be at the stage where he is applying for a visa for her or a wedding is being planned or discussed. As I said, there is no single scenario but the crucial stage seems to be just before a major commitment at which point the man will not want to start backing out. Another way to put it would be to say that the man is almost at the point of no return. Thai girls understand men's sexual needs very well and in sexual terms a man's point of no return is the stage where he will commit or agree to just about anything in the world in order to continue what he has already started. What seems to happen, typically, is that when the girl thinks the man is at the point of no return with his commitment to her, a major crisis will suddenly appear out of the woodwork. The crisis - whatever it may be - has never been mentioned before but comes completely out of the blue. So, what could it possibly be? Once again, there is no single thing. It could be a contrived crisis of confidence, "You can't take care of me," or "I don't think you really love me," etc. It could be a financial one (but not a sick buffalo) - perhaps she says she or her family are heavily in debt. It could be a love crisis. A Thai man (or perhaps another farang) has suddenly appeared on the scene, professed his undying love for the girl, asked her parents to marry her, and they have agreed. Once the crisis has been aired she will be distraught; crying her eyes out on the phone and begging for help. If it's a love crisis she will insist, of course, that she has no desire for any other man apart from you and this will naturally tug on your heartstrings. This stage will be very, very upsetting hearing her sob all the time. But .... there is good news. Whatever the crisis may be, it can be resolved by the simple act of you sending some money. After all, you're a farang aren't you, and all farangs have endless supplies of the stuff. Even the most stupid, uneducated Thai person knows this irrefutable fact of nature. It's taught as part of the national curriculum. If it's about lack of commitment, then by sending money those doubts will be overcome. If there is a financial crisis, then by sending money you will prove your worth as a provider. If she has another suitor (supposedly) sending money will prove that you are the better choice. Get the drift? Who said money isn't the answer to everything? It is in Thailand. Should this happen, what do you do? The answer depends a lot on your own emotional strength and I have corresponded with men who are both emotionally weak and emotionally strong. It can be tough. You have fallen in love, given up everything in your home country and booked a passage to Thailand when you suddenly get news that a foreign Johnny on holiday in Pattaya has applied for the position of husband with the love of your life and has been accepted. What do you do now? Ask for your old job back and return to your old life? Start all over again looking for another Thai girl? Or just cough up the money and try to continue with your original plans? Of course, if she is a cheat and you just transfer a lump sum of money to her bank account there are still no guarantees. There is nothing to stop her simply disappearing so you never see her again or she could just tell you to get lost the next time you show up in Thailand. If you persist, there is nothing stopping her reporting you to the police for harassment. The law in Thailand is heavily weighted in favour of Thais, and anyway, she didn't steal the money - you gave it to her. The bottom line is that you have no legal recourse. Thai girls are not forced to marry against their will and money is maybe not as big an issue as some foreigners believe. The minute I start hearing requests for money from Thai girls (and it has happened), the red warning flags start to wave. One newly-wed (and very attractive) girl I knew wanted Bt40,000 to pay off a family debt and promised me all sorts of carnal delights. I'm not sure how I was supposed to receive my payment. I doubt very much she would have made a special journey to see me and I was hardly likely to show up at her house to get my reward. I just ignored the requests and it was a 'friendship' that fizzled out as quickly as it had started. From the moment she first met me, she had obviously decided that I was only good for one purpose. After being cynical (and living in Thailand makes you very cynical), there is actually a chance that the girl you are involved with has a genuine financial crisis. What you should bear in mind though is that Bt10,000 or Bt20,000 is a lot of money for most Thais. If you gave a rural Thai Bt100,000 they would probably think they were set up for life. I therefore start to get very suspicious when I hear about poor Thai girls demanding Bt1 million or Bt2 million. You will have to use your own judgement whether you believe the request is genuine or a scam but try to look at the situation objectively without any emotional attachment. The other scenario is that you pay up to divert the 'crisis' and she doesn't disappear or tell you to get lost, but you carry on with the relationship and maybe even get married. However, there could be a problem then that these family 'crises' keep cropping up with alarming regularity and you are asked continually for financial assistance. You could be forgiven for imagining your mouth has assumed the shape of a credit card slot, you have a keypad on your chest, and a cash dispenser around your stomach area. Living in Thailand has made me a lot more aware of some of the pitfalls with Thai females and it has also toughened me up emotionally. It doesn't pay to be emotionally weak when dealing with Thai girls but the irony is that it is generally men who haven't had any luck with the girls back home - and who are emotionally weak - that come to Thailand searching for a Thai partner. Good Thai girls can make perfect wives but meeting the wrong kind can be a living nightmare.
Last updated: 4th November 2006
They would like a way out and the only way out for many is to find a farang man because Thai men of any standing are not interested in poor, uneducated girls from low social classes. The key to achieving this is their beauty and they are fully aware that beauty isn't eternal. Their window of opportunity, therefore, is fairly small. Many Thai girls panic upon reaching 25 and at 30 quite a few consider themselves old maids if they are still single. But finding a husband is not just about having opportunities to lead more exciting lives. Thais are not solitary creatures and they worry about being alone in their old age. The family unit may have broken down in Western countries but not in Thailand. Relationships are very important to Thai girls on several fronts and they know that they cannot wait forever to find a man. For farang men it couldn't be more different. As long as they have some money, their age and looks are unimportant. Men of 80 come to Thailand and form relationships with girls 50 years younger. Time doesn't matter. One of my e-mail correspondents comes across as a thoroughly nice man. He has worked hard all his life and is as honest as the day is long. He has become disillusioned with England and English females the same way that I became disillusioned with England and English females and the same way that millions of other males have become disillusioned with England and English females. He visited Thailand and met a girl who, from what he says, sounds like a good person. They spent time together and he was very, very happy. He started the process of getting her a visa to go to England but then decided he had had enough of England so perhaps it would be better for him to go to Thailand instead. As I know from my own experience, to do this properly takes time and effort. Like me, he owns a property in England, so he can't just jump on the next plane to Thailand. Not only does he need to sort out his affairs in England but he needs to arrange visas for Thailand along with all the other things that are involved with relocating to another country. Meanwhile, his girlfriend continues to wait in Thailand and even though he sends her money, she can't be sure what will happen next. Will he come or will he suddenly decide it's not worth the effort? He is a very honest man and has admitted to me that he isn't sure yet what he will do and I assume he is being just as honest with her. I feel sorry for both of them because it's a difficult situation and one that can't be hurried. I had to abandon my original schedule to come to Thailand because I wasn't ready at the time and it was necessary to delay my plans by several months. To add to his worries, he has noticed some unusual behaviour on her part and is now becoming suspicious. Most of it is based around her mobile phone use; mobile phones being a major source of problems with relationships in Thailand. Last time he was in Thailand he noticed that she kept her phone in the silent mode and wouldn't take certain calls in his presence. He has even considered getting someone to investigate the girl to see what she is up to. This all sounded a bit worrying to me because I think he has been reading a lot more into the situation than actually exists and she sounds to me like a perfectly normal Thai girl. While he is procrastinating about his future she is waiting patiently but she is probably still trying to keep a few options open. That's normal behaviour. If he gets her investigated by some hokey part-time investigator trying to make a bit more money in Thailand, what will the reports of the investigation be? That she speaks to other men? What is she supposed to do; stay in a darkened room all day and not speak to anyone? For the first year I was with Iss we had a small problem with a Thai male 'friend' of hers who would call every day and they would speak for an hour or more. I wasn't particularly bothered but after a while it became a little tiresome. We had a chat but what became evident was that she was not prepared to break off her telephone relationship with him until I had demonstrated a certain level of commitment; in other words, marriage. This guy had known her for about three years and was besotted. He wanted to marry her and was quite prepared to take on her two boys. This kind of commitment is what every girl in Thailand is looking for. However, Iss's dilemma was that she didn't have any feelings towards him. She has very strong feelings towards me but I wasn't (and I'm still not) prepared to give that commitment. She was just keeping her options open. In her ideal world, I would eventually change my mind and show her that I was committed but if things didn't work out with me she had a fallback plan. She could go to him and even though she didn't love him she would at least have some security in life. I didn't like what was going on but I could understand the reasons why. The problem was eventually resolved by the guy running out of patience and marrying someone else at which time he and Iss stopped talking. Unfortunately for Iss now, she is still with someone who won't give her any commitment and she doesn't have anyone to fall back on. I don't feel guilty because I never at any point stopped her from leaving me to marry him. It was her decision. But getting back to my original point, with Thai girls you need to show a serious level of commitment and do it fairly quickly if you want to avoid all this crap otherwise they will continue to keep as many options open as possible. It was the same with the other girl, Rung, who I got quite hung up on for a while. She was 26 at the time and looking after her parents, disabled son, nephew, brother and extended family in Isaan by working and sending money home. When I met her she was doing massage and after we split up she went to Patong to work as a bar girl because she could earn a lot more money that way. She made absolutely no bones about her situation and didn't try to hide anything from me. While we were together she had Malaysian and Singaporean men call her often. I didn't like this either but she was keeping her options open. She knew that once her looks had faded she would no longer be able to support her family but while she was still young and pretty she could find a man to take care of her. She gave me the deal which was a lump sum followed by monthly payments and for that money she was mine. This wasn't something I was prepared to do though so she went elsewhere. The Thais are very pragmatic. She had no feelings for the Malaysians and Singaporeans she went with but it had nothing to do with feelings; it had everything to do with supporting herself and her family. This kind of thing would never happen in Western countries but this isn't a Western country - it is Thailand. One of the biggest problems with farang men is that they don't seem to be able to get this into their heads but the sooner they do, the sooner they will stop having these stupid problems with Thai girls.
Last updated: 10th December 2008 Dave seemed like a genuine enough man when he first started to send e-mails but I was to find out the real truth some time later. His real problem was one that I wasn't qualified to deal with. His initial queries about how to avoid the pitfalls with Thai girls that so many foreign men encounter were all quite reasonable. He had read what I had previously written and appeared to want to take a very sensible approach. That was all good, but cracks started to appear quite soon afterwards. He was looking at making a permanent move to Thailand and also made some enquiries about teaching English. However, he failed the TEFL test miserably and from his e-mails it was obvious that he only had a very basic grasp of the English language - despite being a native speaker - and was not suitably equipped to teach English. He met his first Thai girlfriend through an Internet dating site. I am suspicious about such things because Thai girls who go out of their way to meet foreigners (such as those joining online dating sites) normally do so only for money. Anyway, he was lucky in that she was quite a nice girl. He didn't trust her though and his behaviour became extremely suspicious and paranoid. Every time she didn't answer her phone he assumed it was because she was with her Thai boyfriend. He started talking about hiring a private detective to track her. My view then - as it is now - is that this is a complete waste of money. If you don't trust a girl enough that you consider hiring someone to follow her, just forget her and look elsewhere. He didn't hire a detective as far as I know but his behaviour got more and more paranoid. She got fed up with this, their relationship deteriorated fast, and they split up. While he was with her I started to get an idea that everything wasn't quite as it seemed when he started boasting to me about how many times he had sex with her in one day. Not only did the number of times seem unnatural for a man of his age; but also the fact he felt a need to boast about it to a stranger. After the relationship failed he said he was so upset with what had happened that he could never return to Thailand because it would bring back too many painful memories. A little later he was back. Although his initial questions about meeting good Thai girls were good, it soon became obvious that he wasn't interested in heeding any of my advice. The next girl he met actually approached him in a Bangkok shopping mall. This is a very bad sign because a good Thai girl would never do this. He was ecstatic at first because the two of them got in between the sheets straight away (another bad sign). He then started boasting to me again about how many times they had sex. When they weren't having sex he didn't really know what to do with himself and, being a suspicious person, started checking up on her phone calls and bank account. It soon came to light that she had several other farangs on the go. This didn't surprise me at all, seeing as how she had approached him in the first place. Guys from all around the globe were sending her money, she didn't work, and she rented an apartment in Pattaya where one of her foreign boyfriends would visit her. It all started to get very messy but then he told me she had agreed to drop the other guys and just be with him. The last I heard, he had gone back home but had taken a serious - and untreatable - STD that he had caught from her. With sex being such an important part of his life, and now having a serious sexually transmitted disease that couldn't be cured, he was almost suicidal. In our later conversations he told me how he was addicted to sex and always had been. An addiction to sex is just like an addiction to anything else and needs professional help. It affects a lot of men and there have been some high profile cases in recent years. Getting on a plane to Thailand probably isn't the best way to deal with sex addiction. Sure, there are a huge number of prostitutes in the country and it will work for a short term fix but this won't fix the underlying problem. Using Thai prostitutes permanently starts to get expensive and creates a very high risk of contracting an STD, or even AIDS. Also, when immediate sex is the first priority when looking for Thai girls, you are guaranteed to meet all the wrong kind of Thai girls. Meeting a good Thai girl takes a long time and with the vast majority of good girls there won't be any quick sexual gratification - sometimes not even until after marriage. Thailand is not the answer for this problem but it is still the reason why many men visit. In my humble opinion, a clinic that has doctors who can offer professional advice might be a better bet than a flight to Bangkok and a taxi to Pattaya.
Taking a Thai girl back to live in the UK I have no personal experience of this but I have talked with British men who have been through the process. It is not an easy process and nothing is guaranteed. Some men try unsuccessfully for years and eventually give up. Here is a basic list of the things that are required:
I believe that the girl should be present during all the interviews and obviously she should look the part. If you met her in a bar she shouldn't turn up at the British Embassy in her regulation micro-skirt and six-inch platform boots. It would also be advisable for her to wear clothes that cover her tattoos. Oh, and try to think of something sensible when they ask what she does for a living. One chap I spoke to told me they didn't like the authentication stamps on certain documents. The stamps were in the wrong place or the dates were wrong, or something. He had to get new copies of the documents and then make another trip to Bangkok. He spent months making trips to and from the UK, Bangkok and where he was staying in southern Thailand. Personally, I would never consider taking a Thai girl back to the UK. The primary reason is that I don't want to go back myself but there are other reasons. Having spent almost three years with a Thai girl in Thailand, I know the lifestyle she enjoys - which is a very Thai lifestyle. I know what she enjoys doing, what she enjoys eating and I know that she shivers like a featherless penguin when the temperature goes below 75 degrees. I know how much she loves being able to pop out next door for som-tum and I know how utterly miserable she was when I took her to Singapore. After two days of eating farang food with my family and not being able to follow the English conversations she locked herself in the bedroom and cried uncontrollably. She then announced she was going to take the bus back to Thailand alone. Note that this was only Singapore which has roughly the same climate as Thailand, which is a Southeast Asian country and which has a lot of rice-based food. If she couldn't hack Singapore there is no way she could manage in the miserable UK. There are also the close ties she has with her family. In Thailand she can hop on a bus to go to see them but she couldn't do that in England obviously. Finally, I have noticed how Thai girls can change when they get a taste of Western living (and often it is for the worse). Many I have met who have lived abroad have become very snotty and have started to get ideas well above their station. It's as if they morph into that most unpleasant of creatures, otherwise known as farang girl. The balance of power in relationships is completely different between Thailand and Western countries. In Western countries it lies entirely with women. In Thailand, men have the upper hand. I am not sexist but I like my position of power in Thailand and don't want to be treated like a piece of shit again as I was by women in the UK for 40-odd years. If you take an attractive Thai girl back to your home country it is likely she will get a lot of attention from other men. Depending on her motives for going, there could be problems. If she went because she loves you, there is probably nothing to worry about. However, if she is there just for your money and a better offer comes along she could decide to jump ship. The bottom line is that we all think differently and have different circumstances so it is a very personal choice. Just be warned though that if you do want to take a Thai girl home with you, it won't be easy. I don't know what the process is for taking girls back to countries other than the UK but probably quite similar. Unfortunately, Thai girls do not have the greatest of reputations abroad and it's not uncommon to find them working as prostitutes in other countries. Foreign authorities are very aware of this and impose strict immigration procedures when allowing Thai females into the country. It's not right and it's not fair but it's a fact.
Back in the UK I used to read occasional newspaper stories about girls getting their own back on men who had cheated them. Typically the girl would damage one of the man's prized possessions or anything that would cause him some financial loss. Common stories were of cars being scratched or sprayed with paint or clothes being cut up into small pieces. I never hear stories like this in Thailand. Oh no. You would be lucky indeed to incur the wrath of a Thai girl and escape with just a damaged car or some damage to your wardrobe. Behind the gentle smiling façade the Thais, as a race, are quite vengeful and vindictive. On top of this, they are easily slighted. An innocuous action might cause a loss of face and by hardly doing anything you have made a potentially dangerous enemy. However, upsetting Thai girls is not usually as a result of doing nothing. The normal reason is that the man they are with has been messing around with other girls. This isn't a particularly difficult thing to do in Thailand but be warned. So what can you expect then if you are caught cheating on your girl? The first thing you might notice is that in a country where a major part of the culture is to behave in non-confrontational manner, she gets very confrontational. Not only will she get confrontational with you but if she can track down the third party she will also get very confrontational with the other girl. This may just be a few aggressive phone calls or it could lead to an actual physical confrontation. The sight of two Thai girls trying to pull out each others' hair and gouge out each others' eyes is common on TV soap operas and not unknown in real life. When she has finished with the other girl she will turn her attention to the other guilty party - you. If you are very lucky you will just receive a verbal tirade along with some looks that are capable of turning grown men to stone. If you are unlucky she will attack you with some kind of a weapon and the weapon of choice for Thai girls these days are knives. It is frightening how many stories I have heard recently concerning knife attacks by Thai girls. I have blogged a few, including the murder of a Kiwi lad just a few weeks ago who was stabbed by his girlfriend after a disagreement while watching the World Cup on TV. Once the red mist comes down they lose control completely and when knives come readily to hand it is a recipe for disaster. It is amazing what the average Thai can cope with - including the death of a close relative - and not react at all but when it comes to relationships they completely lose the plot. If you are really unlucky she will hire a couple of local thugs to do her dirty work for her. I think the going rate is something like Bt50,000 which isn't an awful lot of money. As you are walking along one night, a motorbike will come along behind you and the guy riding pillion will put a bullet in your neck. It is extremely easy to get involved with a lo-so Thai woman and she will do all she can to get her feet under the table as quickly as possible. If you are serious about the relationship it isn't a problem. However, if you think you can still carry on with other woman while in a relationship with her be very careful. You are in Thailand now; not your home country and the rules of the game are very different.
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