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Photo: Thai girls participating in the Loy Gratong festival What's On This Page? |
Thailand - Girls Page 6Last updated: 1st November 2008 Life has made me cynical but through this web site I have been contacted by several men who are decent, honest and reliable. Similarly, I know many decent, honest and trustworthy girls in Thailand. So, what's the problem? Why is there so much bitterness and even a few men resorting to hiring private investigators to track Thai girls? I think I have answered the answers to those questions above but if a decent farang man wants to find a decent Thai girl, how does he do it? I hope by doing this that I do not come across as arrogant or pretentious because that is definitely not what I want. What I am about to write is based quite a lot on personal experience. I was the classic stupid farang when I visited Thailand on vacation and when I first arrived to live in the country. When I think back to some of the things I did and some of the girls I got involved with, it makes me cringe. No lasting damage was done, however, and I think I have learnt from my mistakes. I hope I have anyway. For what it's worth, here is my advice:
Once you know how to identify and meet decent Thai girls, give up any hope of ever getting involved with one and find your way to the nearest bath and massage house because by paying a prostitute that is the only way you will get intimate with an attractive Thai girl. After five years of leading a respectable life in Thailand and hoping to meet a respectable girl, I have all but given up. The girls I want to get to know are exactly the same ones that Thai men want and when competing against good Thai men, foreigners don't stand a chance. If I meet a good looking, respectable Thai girl it is 99.9% guaranteed that she will already have a Thai boyfriend. On the very rare chance she doesn't have a Thai boyfried, the worst thing for her reputation will be to be seen with a farang so that then rules me out. It's a waste of time.
Last updated: 29th July 2008 I know many respectable Thai girls who insist they don't have boyfriends. However, it always seemed a little odd to me that whenever I met many of them, there was always the same Thai male hovering around who looked and behaved suspiciously like a boyfriend. Whenever the girls went anywhere it would be with the same man, and he was constantly on hand - often with a vehicle - to take them wherever they wanted to go. If it was just friendship, it was the most generous form of friendship I have ever seen. If I asked who he was, they would always swear he was just a friend. It was obviously though that he wasn't 'just a friend'. For a very long time, the cynical side of me told me they were lying. It was as if they wanted to have their cake and eat it, that is, have their fun without anyone knowing while presenting an image of chastity and virtue to the outside world. Either that, or they were just trying to keep their options open in case a better man were to come along so they lied about not having a boyfriend. Whatever they were doing, I regarded what I was told as lies and deception and didn't like it. But now, after almost five years living in Thailand, and having seen lots of relationships develop, I think I was wrong. Courtship, for want of a better word, with decent Thai girls takes forever. Thai men understand this, and they also understand what the girls want. If the men aren't particular good looking, or don't have much money, it doesn't matter because it is other factors that will win the girls over .... eventually. As I write, there is lots of controversy over comments made by a politician about Thailand's system of patronage. What he said, basically, was that democracy is not compatible with a society based on client/patron relationships. The comments have upset a lot of Thais but it cannot be denied that the ultimate aim of many Thai girls is to enter into a relationship with a person who will take care of them. I have been single in Thailand for a while since my last girlfriend moved out and I am in no hurry to replace her. When I tell Thai girls I live alone, the question I always get asked is, "Who takes care of you when you are sick?" It's almost as if it is incomprehensible to them that I manage to survive alone. Many foreigners do, of course, but it is a strange concept to Thais. Like it or not - and the truth is sometimes hard to swallow - the system of patronage, of depending on someone and not being independent, is deeply ingrained in Thailand. The taking care aspect in a relationship needn't involve a lot of money. One of my apartment receptionists has just got married afted knowing the man who is now husband for five years. He doesn't have much money but she was telling me that whenever she finishes work, he arrives on his motorbike to pick her up. She therefore never has to worry about getting home late at night and this means a great deal to her. Taking care of people when they are sick is also a big thing in Thailand. In England, I always suffered alone when I was ill, and it amazed me in Thailand how Iss reacted when I got sick. Once the man proves himself - and this could take several years, as was the case with the receptionist - the girls will then consider marriage. Thai courtships, from what I can make out, really are very innocent affairs so this is why the girls refer to the men chasing them as friends. Another friend of mine was wooed for two-and-a-half years. During this time, the closest the guy she was seeing ever got was kissing her on the cheek. His patience ran out though, he looked for his fun elsewhere, got caught, and got dumped. Thais have far higher moral values than perhaps most foreigners believe - based on what foreigners see during their two week vacation in Pattaya. When I talk to respectable Thai girls, the theme that continually comes through is morality. kon dee (good person), jai dee (good heart), doo lair (take care) are all phrases that they use repeatedly. It takes a long time though for a man to prove his worth. The girls seem quite suspicious of men (for good reason), and will want to wait long enough to make sure the man is being sincere. What is required is an enormous amount of patience. Thai men have this quality but foreign men arriving in Thailand looking for a woman are notorious for lacking patience. To attract the best girls in Thailand, though, there is a lesson to be learned from Thai men.
Last updated: 20th November 2006 On the face of it, many Thai girl/farang man relationships should be just about perfect. The most populated areas of Thailand are also the poorest. The majority of girls from these areas have limited education and no hope of finding a good, well-paid job. Because of Thai culture they are expected to take care of their parents and sometimes their extended families. Many have children at an early age. Thai men higher up the social scale won't look at them, and men from their own background are probably more interested in drinking, smoking, motorbikes and screwing around. For many, the only way to earn more money is in the sex industry which is not something to be proud of, neither is it a very long career. When good farang men come along offering them a potential way out of that existence to a better life there shouldn't be any silly games but inevitably there are. And it's not as if there is a surplus of good farang men in Thailand. When you take away the sex tourists, sexpats, drunks, kids doing their gap year in Thailand teaching English or diving, and the men who are already in relationships, it doesn't leave that many. Thai girls working outside the sex industry are also prone to playing emotional games. I've been writing to a guy from the UK for a couple of months who has known a Thai girl for some time. She's a respectable girl with a respectable job. He sends her money and is trying to reorganise his life in order to be able to come out to Thailand to retire but it is a massive move that can't be hurried. What isn't helping is that she is playing games. It seems that she doesn't want him to contact her at weekends and makes excuses that either she left her phone somewhere or that she is in an area with no signal. He is rightly getting suspicious and delaying his plans to retire to Thailand. He may even decide to forget the whole thing which would mean they would both lose out which would be a real shame. I've been giving this a lot of thought lately because Iss did the same thing with me for a long time and it is common with Thai girls. It's complex and I think there are many reasons involved. Thailand is still very much a man's world. For starters, there are - it seems - a lot more women than men so men have a numbers advantage. There has been no female liberation movement in Thailand. Clever girls who can afford the education have no barriers getting good jobs in the medical profession, for example, but men generally get a better deal in life and women still take care of men very much. Because of this, I believe that the girls develop clever strategies to level the playing field a little. Many won't have had much of an education, or appear to be very bright, but they are perceptive and very good at sensing other people's emotions. When I had problems with Iss (which consisted of some ultimatums and a set of demands) it was at a time when she believed I needed her more than she needed me. She saw an opportunity where she thought she had power over me in the relationship and tried to make the most of that situation to secure her future. All of us would probably do the same in a similar situation. Even though there are a lot of girls in Thailand, and it is fairly easy just to find another if the one you are with starts messing you around, it's difficult because of the emotional attachment that forms. And the girls are very aware of this. At the beginning of relationships with Thai girls, farang men are far more vulnerable than the girls because they have different needs. I would guess that most farang men who come to Thailand to look for women do so because they find it impossible to meet girls where they come from. They have sexual and emotional needs which are incredibly powerful. There are few more powerful forces in the world than a man's need for sex. Men will give up everything else in their life or risk their careers for sex - even highly intelligent men because the part of the brain controlling these desires doesn't work at a logical level. Meeting (and having sex with) a beautiful Thai girl half their age can cause many men to lose the plot entirely. The relationship will become all consuming. On the other hand, the girls don't form instant emotional attachments. They are probably quite content with their lives and only look at the guy as being good for some money, and nothing else. The girls therefore find themselves in a position of power at the start of the relationship - which they are fully aware of - and which they try to exploit to their own advantage. It's normal human behaviour and probably something that we have all done. In my old career at yearly appraisal time, if I sensed that my manager was a hard bastard I wouldn't ask for anything but if he came over as very sensitive and a bit weak, I would push my luck and try to make some demands for a promotion or pay rise. We all do it to some extent because it's human nature. Men who come to Thailand and meet a girl are at their weakest emotionally after they return home. The loneliness is almost unbearable and they will do anything to try to keep what they had in Thailand. This will mean calling the girl frequently and sending money. From the man's perspective, he might think he is securing the relationship but to the girl this behaviour only emphasises his emotional weakness and she will try to exploit it further. This happens everywhere in the world and Thailand is no exception. What's unfortunate is that the guys who have never had much luck with women are the ones who act desperately and this just perpetuates their lack of success with women. Many losers in love come to Thailand only to find that nothing has changed much. Without a doubt, actually living in Thailand gives men a big opportunity to even things up and, as I have suggested elsewhere, if a man is looking to find a Thai wife I strongly recommend moving to Thailand for at least a year. If you pin all your hopes on one girl who is thousands of miles away, how many other options do you have close by? Probably none. But how many foreign men can she meet in Thailand? Probably lots. If you are trying to have a long distance relationship she has a big advantage straight away because you need her far more than she needs you. Don't be soft with the girls because they will sense weakness and walk all over you. In the example I gave above, I admitted that I have tried to take advantage with weak people in the past. It's not necessarily a bad thing; we all want to try to get as much out of life as we can as our personal circumstances will allow. Desperation is a huge turn off for a girl no matter how poor she is or how much money you have. Don't promise her everything within an hour of meeting her because you will just be categorised as another sad, lonely and desperate farang loser. Sending money each month doesn't guarantee anything either and is just another sign that you are emotionally weak. Keep your emotions in check, be a nice guy and try to help her with her life by giving her emotional support. Despite their outgoing and seemingly happy personas, many of the girls are quite insecure and lack self-esteem. Just throwing money at them doesn't help but making them feel better about themselves does. Helping to make a girl feel good about herself is the way to really win her heart and once she develops emotional attachments towards you, the games will stop, but this normally takes quite a long time. It's basically impossible to escape emotional games when we first enter into relationships because we cannot escape human nature. Everything takes time and the guys who think they can come to Thailand for two weeks to meet the girl of their dreams are the biggest losers of all.
Last updated: 4th April 2007 The northeast Isaan region accounts for about a third of the total population of Thailand and it is also the poorest region. No matter where you go in Thailand, it won't be long before you meet a khon Isaan. What is kind of interesting is that Thais speak of the northeast as if the region was a separate country and the northeasterners as if they aren't Thai. People from the north, south and central regions are proud of where they come from but those regions aren't spoken about in the same way as Isaan which is referred to almost a completely separate entity. I've read a few interesting comments from foreigners about Thais from Isaan so just wanted to put forward a few views of my own. What is important to remember is that you can't make sweeping generalisations about 20 million people. Not all Isaan girls are deceitful money-grubbers, the same way as not all Liverpudlians are car thieves and not all Glaswegians are drunks. (Sits back and waits for the hate mail.) The northeasterners, I think, epitomise the best and the worst of Thailand. As I've written about elsewhere, people are shaped by their environment. Many people from Isaan are poor and they do what they can to survive. Millions of years ago (according to some of my students) the northeast of Thailand of covered by an inland sea. That's no longer the case - obviously - but as a result the soil is poor. If that region consisted of fertile valleys with an abundance of crops, I'm sure everything would be very different. The people are generally honest and hardworking. Ask any construction workers in Thailand where they come from and if the answer is not from one of the poor neighbouring countries (Laos, Burma, Cambodia), you will probably find they come from Isaan. It's the same with Bangkok taxi drivers and many people in Thailand doing menial work. I think that it's basically exploitation but the Isaan people don't have any chips on their shoulders and just get on with life, working hard for Bt150 or so a day. Thailand wouldn't be the country it is without the cheap labour from Isaan. So, what if a girl from Isaan is young and pretty but - through no fault of her own - has no opportunities in life? What can she do? She can get a job as a maid or as a construction worker or any number of other low paying menial jobs, or she can go to work in one of the big tourist areas where the work will be easier and the pay better. This could be straightforward massage or it could be some form of job where sex is involved. Sitting talking to men in a bar and then earning Bt1,000 (or maybe a lot more) by sleeping with someone is a lot easier than doing back-breaking or menial work and the financial compensation is a lot higher. I am often asked by Thais why farang men like Isaan girls so much. The answer is they don't, necessarily, but because of the way they tend to meet Thai girls, the likelihood is that the girls will probably be from Isaan. The last thing the average farang male wants when he steps off the plane in Bangkok is a lengthy, celibate courtship with a respectable southern or central region girl. He just wants to get his leg over as quickly as possible. This sounds bad but wherever he goes to do that there is a higher probability that he will encounter a girl from Isaan than anywhere else. I have actually felt a little embarrassed at times for being surprised after meeting a very respectable girl and finding out she is from Isaan. There is a well recognised Isaan girl stereotype but it doesn't mean that every girl from the region conforms to it. Also, just because a girl comes from Isaan and works in massage, as a Go-Go dancer, or as a bar girl, it doesn't mean that she won't make a great partner or wife. As I said, many of the girls have no opportunities in life and they may not feel proud of what they do, but they have to support their families whichever they can. But, at the same time, this also doesn't mean that every Isaan bar girl is a poor victim of the system who, if given the chance, would make a great wife. Some are quite mercenary and not nice people. You have to take every case on an individual basis. The need for financial support, that a wealthy Bangkok girl has no need for, brings out the best and worst of poor Isaan girls. The girls can - and do - make men feel like gods, but also there can be some deceit. A wealthy Bangkok girl (in the same way as a farang girl) will tell a man where to go if she doesn't like him. She doesn't care if he has money or not. However, this won't necessarily be the case with a poor girl who might string a man (or men) along purely for money without having any feelings for them. I've had lots of fun with Isaan girls but would I get serious with one? As I said above, everyone is different and every case has to be assessed on its own merits. You can't just write off every single girl in a particular region and it is crazy to make sweeping statements such as some of the ones I have read. At the risk of contradicting myself - and just to keep this honest - I am probably a little more wary about Isaan girls than I might be of girls from elsewhere in Thailand, especially if it is not clear exactly what they do for a living. But the bottom line is that there is nothing inherently bad about girls from the northeast of Thailand.
Last updated: 23rd November 2008 Thailand is primarily Buddhist but in the south there are a lot of Muslims. In the deep south Muslims dominate and even in the tourist mecca (pun intended) of Phuket you will find many followers of Islam. Since I started living in southern Thailand I have attracted the attention of a number of Muslim girls. You do find instances of Muslims and Buddhists intermarrying but most Buddhist Thais I know pull a funny face when referring to Muslims. Rather than simply referring to them as followers of a different religion, they refer to Muslims as if they were a completely different race. However, they do the same with ethnic Chinese Thais, and Thais from the northeast. They refer to these groups of people as Chinese, Isaan or Muslim rather than being Thai, which they are of course. I have no such prejudices and the fact I treat people the same way may be why some Muslim girls have taken an interest. Muslim Thai girls, of course, look just the same as non-Muslim Thai girls if they choose not to wear the veil and some are quite stunning. You'll never know what their religion is unless they tell you. Many Muslim girls choose to wear a headscarf and some wear the black burka with only their eyes showing but the latter is fairly unusual in my experience. One of the strangest experiences I have had in Thailand was while shopping at Tesco Lotus one evening. I noticed a fully veiled Muslim girl just staring at me. The only things showing were her eyes but it was obvious they were gazing at me. I said hello and we started a conversation. She lived in Phattalung province and was just about to go on the Hajj - the Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca - so she was stocking up on things to take with her. In the course of the conversation she apologised about her veil and told me she doesn't wear it at home; just when she goes out. The sight of a farang talking to a Muslim girl covered entirely in black with just her eyes showing in the aisle at Tesco Lotus must have looked very strange to the Thais and I noticed lots of people staring. Anyway, as the conversation went on it started to become obvious that she had something more on her mind. She asked for my phone number and invited me to visit her home. She called the next morning but I decided it might be best not to answer. I have nothing against Muslims but I didn't feel completely comfortable about this particular situation. The moral of this story is that Muslim girls in Thailand aren't completely inaccessible and that some are actually very interested in farangs. Getting involved isn't to be taken lightly though. One of my objections to Islam is the intolerant nature of a religion that doesn't allow Muslims to marry non-Muslims and doesn't allow people to change faith. Not only isn't this allowed but it is punishable by death or life imprisonment (see apostasy). Therefore, if you want to get involved with a Muslim girl you will need to marry her and in order to do so you will need to convert to Islam first. If you aren't circumcised then that could be something else that needs sorting out; I'm not exactly sure. I've met plenty of farang men married to Buddhist Thai girls but I don't think I've met any married to a Muslim Thai girl. It's certainly possible but in addition to all of the normal barriers, there are a few extra ones to overcome if you decide to get involved with a Muslim Thai girl.
Last updated: 3rd June 2007
Also, in addition to the physical hazards, be careful about the emotional ones. Falling in love with a Thai bar girl while on vacation has been the beginning of the road to ruin for many a foreign man. Be careful, therefore, about getting emotionally involved and be aware of her emotional state because some of the girls are not very well balanced. If you start to spend a lot of time with one girl, even if it is paid-for sex, she will still not appreciate you playing around. I have read several reports about bar girls stabbing their customers because they didn't like the way the men were flirting with other girls. If you are looking for more than just sex, you can maybe find a relationship with a bar girl but it is a risky option. She will have begun her career because of money and that desire for money will likely never go away. The relationship may appear to work but for as long as you are together you will be looked at primarily as a source of income for her and her family. If, on the other hand, you wish to meet a Thai girl not involved in the sex industry, the potential rewards are far greater but it is not necessarily an easy process. As I tell my Thai students of English, "Nothing worthwhile having in life comes easy," and this applies to finding a good Thai girl as much as anything else. They are not all poor little village girls who will worship you because you are a foreigner and have a few thousand Baht in your pocket. The really worthwhile ones aren't particularly concerned with money, regardless of whether they are rich or poor. Don't expect to form a relationship in the three weeks you spend on vacation in Thailand. Expect a long period getting to know each other and a fairly serious level of commitment. Getting to know a girl well will pay in the long run. You can be in a 'relationship' in Thailand within 24 hours of arriving but it will not be based on a very solid foundation. You will have access to sex and female companionship while she will have access to your wallet. This may be enough to keep the 'relationship' going for the duration of your vacation but beyond that there needs to be more. Finally, I realise that for the most part I am wasting my time writing this. Just as I wasn't prepared to listen to other people about Thai girls, but wanted to find out for myself, it is the same for every other man who visits Thailand. This isn't a bad thing. As an advocate of Buddhism, I have to agree with the philosophy of testing theories and finding out for one's self. I still see comments on Pattaya web sites left by visitors who, after their two week vacation, describe it as 'Paradise on Earth' and who can't wait to return the following year. These comments are quite understandable. Thailand is a welcoming country with an easy way of life and lots of gentle, smiling people. For a man who has been ignored his whole life by the opposite sex, it will seem like 'paradise' to find himself in a place where there are thousands of attractive, available girls, any of whom he can spend the night with for less than the cost of four pints and a curry. The particular girl he ends up with will, of course, be different to all the rest and it will just mean that the other guys dishing out advice must have been unlucky and met the wrong girls. However, as I have said many times before, if something seems to good to be true, it probably is. Have lots of fun, remain optimistic about finding a beautiful, caring, honest wife, but tread very carefully and - even though you are old and ugly enough to make your own decisions in life - don't completely ignore the advice of people who have more experience.
I have written about some personal experiences with Thai girls I've met. I've not necessarily had a relationship with all of them but with some of them I have. The idea is just to give a few examples of the different backgrounds the girls come from, the difficulties they face and how they survive in life. As I have said elsewhere, I believe that the main source of problems for farang men with Thai girls is a lack of understanding. By giving a few small insights into the lives of some Thai girls I have met it might help foreign men to understand them better. One of the fears I have about this site is coming across as either smug or arrogant which are qualities I don't like. As a visitor to, and now an expat in, Thailand I have been through many different stages. On my first few vacations I never met girls other than bar girls and even when I started living in Thailand I got involved with a couple of completely inappropriate girls. Of course, I encountered regular girls on those early trips but didn't have much to do with them and also I didn't realise at the time that by messing around with bar girls I had completely isolated myself from meeting any respectable girls. The only thing that makes me different to casual tourists to Thailand is experience. I have gained a fair amount by living in the country and mixing with people from all walks of life and different social levels. What seems obvious to me now was not obvious at one point and is maybe not obvious to casual tourists. My intention is not to give the impression I am better than anyone else but just to try to share a few simple truths. Not every foreign male visitor to Thailand is a disgusting sex tourist. I've received some really touching e-mails from genuinely nice men who just haven't had much luck with girls from back home. They come to Thailand with totally genuine intentions and would make fantastic husbands but get mixed up with girls not deserving of them and they get hurt. If what I have to say can at least make men think a little about what is going on and save a few from emotional pain (and maybe financial loss), then this has been worthwhile.
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